Heaven and hell

[lanm1192]

When people talk to me about god, they tell me that he loves me and he wants me to go to heaven and be saved. Now, I've been told that god knows everything that is, everything that has been, and everything that will be. So, if he knows what is to be, he knows what our lives will be the instant he creates us. We have the freedom to choose, but that choice would apparently already have a definate ending. whether or not I'm going to be saved has already been decided, no matter what I say. He wants us to be with him and not suffer, but the instant he creates one person, he'll know that there fate is set in stone, whether it's salvation or not. Why is it said that god wants us to be with him when (as far as I know) he is purposefully condemning some of us to hell

[dvnt]

One could argue that, while the course and events of your life may be predestined by god, your intellect remains sovereign and free to choose. Often the argument is made that all one has to do is accept Jesus as their savior. It doesn't seem like any action or incantation is ever specified as the actuator of this divine salvation, so merely a thought might be sufficient.

It's all bunk of course, god knows everything because god is the totality of human ignorance, manifested into an imaginary friend, an authority we can use to understand the universe -- a god of the gaps. You're dealing with a beguiling creature of the most profound and articulate evolutionary development. The generations and variety of reproduction that have perfected this meme escape quantification, a considerable portion of our ability to understand. Many folks can barely understand the the process of biological evolution...

[lanm1192]

One could argue that, while the course and events of your life may be predestined by god, your intellect remains sovereign and free to choose. Often the argument is made that all one has to do is accept Jesus as their savior. It doesn't seem like any action or incantation is ever specified as the actuator of this divine salvation, so merely a thought might be sufficient

I understand that we have freedom to choose, but what I'm asking is that the events to be played out are already known. Whether we choose or not in thought is still already supposedly known when we are created. Atleast that is what I got out of it. Or am I missing something?

[dvnt]

I think you're aware of a obvious fault in theology, though it doesn't seem you completely grasp the theist point of view.

I was playing devil's advocate (no pun intended.) For many Christian's free will refers specifically to the choice of accepting Jesus as your savior or not. It is perfectly acceptable for Hitler to have gone to heaven within the framework of common and contemporary Christian doctrine. They say all sins are forgivable except one.

At the end of the day, you're trying to make sense of another person's delusion. There is only so much sense to be made.